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Monday, December 19, 2005
Experiencing God
I love church...at least I love what it is supposed to be. Lately, I have found myself asking the question, "Did Jesus die to creat this?" It seems that every week this question gets a little stronger in my heart. I dont want this to be a church bashing session, but I do want us to consider where we are and where we are headed. I refuse to accept that Jesus paid such a huge price for us to meet once a week, sing a few songs, talk to a few people on a superficial level, and listen to a warm and fuzzy message for 15-20 minutes. I dont think He died for me to have a great experience. I want to explain that last statement. I do believe that there is great satisfaction and great experience in God, but I fear that we have fallen in love with the experience of church, a stirring message, or even singing. There is nothing wrong with these things, but they are not the end. We have fallen in loving with songs without falling in love with our Savior. That is false worship. We are seeking experiences at church (experiences that will eventually leave us dissatisfied). We need to come to God and experience Him for who He is, and stop seeking what we think the experience should be. He dictates the experience, not our church programs, our songs, or even our past experiences. This all suppose to be a springboard for discussion, so I will stop here even though I have much more that I want to type. Let's talk. Please comment, disagree...if you want you can even yell.
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Fayez...there is a Relevant article titled "I Am the Church" currently up on their website: http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god_article.php?id=7033 that addresses some of your ideas about the church. Please let me know what you think.
Sarah, that article is pretty good. I like the thoughts that he has about community there, but I am struggling with a bit more than just the discussion of community in church...actually maybe the issue of community is part of the problem that I see. If there was community at church, people wouldnt just be showing up at church once a week to do our duty. We show up every week for the same program with a different twist, and assume that this is the way church is supposed to be. I dont know anyone that is in the church...I mean really know them. I dont even know if they have a true faith. As a result I ask myself this question, why are all of you here? Is this what you are seeking? There are so many every week, and I want to know why they keep coming back? It feels like they flock to a big church because they get an entertaining religious experience and can still have anonymity and detachment. They have their go to heaven guarantee, and they want nothing more. As a matter of fact they respond poorly to truth. They will stand up and clap for a banner or for a song or a point in a message that they like; but somehow that fervor wears off so much by Sunday Night that they cant even be bothered to get up off the couch and come back. I know that I am being cynical, but why are we ignoring these things. The point isnt that Sunday Night church doesnt work anymore...the point is that I feel surrounded by social christians (people who are christians because their environment and upbringing dictated that to them) and wonder why their hearts dont burn when they do hear the truth. I am about to go off on a huge tangent and so I need to stop. I have already gotten off track, but I am OK with that.
First of all, if you don't like my jokes, you can shove it where the sun don't shine and not leave hurtful messages on my blog. Secondly, and slightly more important I GUESS... I go to church for several reasons. If I can just be real honest and let you know up front that some of these reasons may be small-hearted or not perfectly Scripturally accurate, I would like to, because I'm not completely satisfied with my own reasons for returning to church each week, as far as my motivations go. But here's a couple. I go purely out of obedience, for one thing. I'll just keep that really simple. Just like I tithe and I give cheerfully MOST of the time, but sometimes when the groceries are scarce or a Europe trip is calling my name in the future and I have a harder time letting go of that envelope, I still do it out of a faith that just has to ignore my own sin nature's desires sometimes. Same with going to church. Most of the time I absolutely love shutting out the call of the wild world I put myself in each day in order to spend several hours surrounded by people who are growing and struggling in their relationship with Christ just like me, but there are also times I want nothing more than to shove it all (Bible study, Firehouse, church, etc.) because I'm sick of hypocrisy (my own most of all) and sick of the circus I feel we have made it half the time. I'm pretty sure if we all felt like church was perfect, we'd be dead. In other words, it's not that we shouldn't be striving to be more like Christ, but as long as humans continue to be in leadership, we're going to pretty much screw it up all the time, and from what I've understood of God's pick of leadership people in the Bible, He's pretty accustomed to that. I guess I just trust that He's in control of our screw-ups and that instead of trying to be some revolutionary change, I just want to be like Christ, because He was a pretty crazy rebel when it came to church, not just to be a change but because His nature was so beautifully opposed to most everything we stand for, that it just naturally came out. I don't know, I think it's still important to speak up if things are not God-honoring but I think that when it comes down to it, Christ's name IS given glory in most of what goes on in our church. I have so much disrest about so many choices our church makes/has made, but I don't have the right to make them known until I've been Christ myself, if that makes sense. In other words, if I didn't like $86,000 being spent on Christmas lights for our 5-performance program (and I didn't), have I actually been evanglizing in what I would consider a more Christ-like and relevant manner. Well, no, I haven't. So I don't know. Even in evaluating hypocrisy I find myself ashamed, so I have a lot to figure out before I fully comprehend why I go to church, but that's what I've come to so far.
i love you, Fayez! thank you for articulating so well what i have felt for so long and in so many different churches. this is one of those times when and one of those subjects where my "feelings" far overshadow THE TRUTH. although i think i have a fairly decent understanding of what the church is "supposed" to be scripturally, i pretty strongly believe that many well intentioned believers have made quite a mockery of God's establishment. i believe that church is like pretty much all of the other aspects of God and His creation -- incomprehensible and full of paradox that complicate our human understanding even further. Our feeble minds attempt to categorize and make sense out of God and His work; we can't. that is where i get stuck. i believe that we, THE CHURCH, have some preconceived notion of what church is supposed to be and we put it into a box -- or into one of several differently shaped boxes, made of different materials and with different colors -- one for liberals, one for conservatives, one for orthodox, etc. and although i know that historically, movements such as the Reformation are vitally important to the cause of Christ and Christianity as we know it today, the rise of denomination after denomination based on man-made dilineations is nauseating to me. i wonder what, if any, of those distinctions is important to God.
so back to the point, why is it that i leave a place that ought to be filled with love and acceptance feel alone and judged more often than fulfilled? catherine is right, the church is filled with fallen men. and in a perfect world, yes, each of us would be seeking a relationship with Christ. we would want more than heart-felt messages, poignant videos, "pretty" lights and songs that lead us to raise our hands and shout, "Amen!" appropriately. in fact, in a perfect world, "appropriately" would be defined by an entirely different standard. we, churchgoers, applaud when others applaud because others are applauding; we ovate (is that the verb that means "give a standing ovation," or did i make that up?) because others ovate. because we think it is appropriate; NOT because it glorifies, pleases or impresses God.
secondly, adeebadubadu, i want to address the experience part of your original post. i agree that God determines the experience. but i believe that He is so big, and so strong and so mighty, and that He knows each of us so intimately that the "experience" can be vastly different for each of us. although my perspective may change the minute i publish this, when i read your entry, i was reminded of college. i went to college in a teeny town in eastern New Mexico. BORING! only not at all. it was what we made it. obviously, God was in control of that, but i think that what you "get out" of "the experience" is a matter of attitude, perspective and faith. my relationship with God can grow watching the sunrise or at church on Sunday, or at Steak and Shake with friends or reading Lewis at home alone. absolute truth exists. i believe however that each of us has the opportunity to experience God and glorify God uniquely. and i am not comfortable asserting that they are the problem or that "it" (the church as an institution) is the problem. i look at the big picture and realize it is MY problem. and i get so sad because rather than experiencing God, my focus has been steered away.
so when i *feel* alone and judged by man, or when i am turned off by $100,000 experiences, hypocrisy, and shallowness. i draw nearer to Him. clinging for dear life. it strengthens my resolve and forces me to evaluate how I contribute to the problem. where have i failed? where can i contribute for His glory.
i am with you, friend. and i am so thankful to have a community of believers to struggle in.
Nice article Fayez. Very thought provocing. I figured I'd throw my two cents in for craps and giggles so here goes. I like to think of life as a battlefield and church as our headquarters. It lies way beyond the frontline were we go for rest, supplies, ammunition and logistics. Without church most Christians would experience burnout or "shellshock" to quote an old WWII term. It is essential that we have a place of purity, were we can let our guards down and be among other Christian brothers and sisters who fight, for the most part, the exact same battle as I do. I look forward to going to church whenever I can because everytime I leave I feel alot lighter. I leave alot of the baggage I accumulated throughout the week at the door. I know that church isn't perfect by any means. It never has been and it never will be. But that's ok with me. My little blog thing here is alot more simplistic than everone elses. But that just reflects my simple view on church. God made it for us to be refreshed and be reminded of his awesomeness.
Fayez, I hear what you're saying (or typing) and understand your point, but something you said really struck a chord with me.
(I know, compared to the rest of you guys, I represent the 'establishment', but I think you need a counterpoint sometimes).
You said, "I dont know anyone that is in the church ... I mean really know them. I dont even know if they have a true faith."
I wonder if you really mean that ... I thought I could name a few people that you knew pretty good ... but you gave me pause with that statement.
I've been in this church pretty much since 1968 and there are a few folks that I've gotten to know pretty well. The main way I did that was through small-group Bible study -- something I know you don't get to do with your other duties.
I guess what is bugging me a little is that it is easy to sit in judgement of a whole church full of people that you yourself say you don't know. You (and others) paint with a pretty broad brush, on a regular basis. (I know, they clap at wierd stuff, but some of that is just being polite and maybe mildly agreeing - they don't think, "Gee, I wonder if people are sitting in judgement of our church because I clapped at this).
I know some in our church who cry over lost people; who seek with their whole heart to know Christ and glorify him with their lives; who serve others without fail in their time of need. They just aren't up tooting their own horn about it, and there are a bunch of them.
Like Cat said, as soon as we let people get involved in church, it got all screwed up! But the mystery of God is that he has called US to be his hands and feet on earth.
I think Chris above (I'm sorry, I don't think I know you) really stated an excellent personal reason for going to church ... but I do wish the church was a little closer to the front lines!
Fayez, please don't think I am taking you to task ... it's the farthest thing from it, but I frequently pick up your frustration (like almost every Sunday ... BTW, I was curious about your take on this past Sunday) and agree with Trace -- a lot of it is in the attitude that someone approaches something. How can we expect a bunch of human junk to become a beautiful worship experience?
It HAS to be the Spirit of God working in a heart to enable that person to worship and bless God ... it's about blessing Him, not us.
It's possible that God has given you and others these beliefs and feelings to help influence our church back to the Main Thing. That won't be accomplished if you throw up your hands and say 'why bother'.
As an aside, Sunday night I was so filled during the worship time that I couldn't sing most of the time for being choked up and crying. And Trace, it blessed me to see you and Sarah about 5 pews in front of me just praising God! I think that's part of corporate worship that is very precious, seeing other saints value and worship God.
Go to church out of obedience, if you must, but let God make something out of it while you're there!
-DEC-
I'm sorry Fayez, looking back over some of that it seems a little strong, and that is not my intention. I just want you to try to make your concerns and energy constructive, and not to make assumptions about what 'everybody' is like or is thinking.
I am continually impressed by the depth that you, Cat, Trace, Nathan, etc., show. Don't stop 'testing' ... just don't burn out or fail to be effective in your input!
Okay, I'll stop now.
Mr. Crawford, you are right. As I looked over the blog, we do need a counterpoint. I cant remember what spurned my venting on the blog, I do recognize that there is a bitter taste of arrogance and judgement in the statements that I left. Im sorry for that. I do want to communicate that I do love the church. What I wanted to say is that I think that at times we are settling for way status quo. The past two Sundays I have been so excited after church. I have recognized that God is doing great things at the church. I feel priviledged to be here. The past two Sunday nights I have enjoyed because it felt like we stopped playing church for a little while and actually were a church. I am making very broad statements that are sound all inclusive and I should be more careful with my words. I recognize that there are many people in there who would and do share the same frustrations. There is one thing that I do need to say here to everyone who reads this, I am sorry if I am typing things that are not truth. Please do not let it pass by. Comment on it. Challenge the thoughts that are here (an everywhere for that matter). Also, please dont become disillusioned with the church. Its not perfect (at least not yet), but it is God's. He thought that it was a good enough idea to start and so should we.
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